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[Fwd: Re: LDP project going online]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: LDP project going online
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 12:42:33 -0600
From: Kevin Cullis <kevincu@orci.com>
To: Sandy Harris <sandy@storm.ca>
References: <39B6FC0F.80A953E7@orci.com> <39B7C584.3AD826DA@storm.ca>

Sandy and everyone,

Please post this to the discussion list.  I've subcribed to the list

Also, you can see who I am and what I've contributed to the Linux effort
by taking a look at what I've written and how I think.


I'm also on the board of the Colorado Linux Info Quest (www.thecliq.org)
which is planning the second annual Conference and Exp next March.

Sandy Harris wrote:
> Kevin Cullis wrote:
> > I'm putting together a new form of the LDP project which is along the
> > lines of what you've stated below:
> >
> > ...
> >
> > I've got some unique organizational skills which will allow me to help
> > out.  The URL WILL be www.linuxloc.com (registered yesterday) and ...
> I don't want to rain on your parade, but there are a few points ..
> 1)
> While all the LDP material is freely available and, as far as I know,
> the name is not trademarked so you can use it without legal hindrance,
> it is other people's work. They deserve credit and recognition for it.

Rest assured, I WON'T being taking any thunder from anyone and what
they've done. One of the items (fields) will be name recognition
(author) in the work I plan on doing.

> You need to be rather careful that you don't appear to be trying to
> exploit their good name without their permission. It appears from your
> post that you are not being sufficiently careful.

As stated above, if anything, I'll be enhancing their efforts by
highlighting who has done what.  I.e. if they have a number of HOWTOs or
other docs which they have authored, they'll get "stars" after their
name as to how many they've done (it's the idea, not how it may look in
the end)

> 2)
> My quick check does not show you or anyone else at orci.com as
> subscribed to ldp-discuss. (Of course, perhaps you're subscribed
> from some other address.) Methinks if you want to contribute to
> LDP, you should subscribe.

I just did, just hadn't got to it until now.  Thanks for the push,
> Not being subscribed, you may have missed some other replies to
> your message, along the lines of my (1) above. Check the archives.

Will do!!!

> 3)
> If, as it sounds, you are thinking of some form of index of LDP
> documents, bravo. This is work that needs to be done. However,
> this raises a bunch more questions.

Bingo (to a certain extent)!!!

> Are you aware of existing indexing projects? The only one I know
> of is OMF, the Open Metadata Framework:
> http://metalab.unc.edu/osrt/omf/
> There may be others I haven't heard of.

This is not quite what I plan on doing, but I may influence what I do in
the future, such as Phase 2 or 3.  Phase 1 is a static HTML model.

> What will your index look like and what are its advantages?

Don't want to give it out quite yet, but it'll be cataloging of the
docs. I need to look out for the community first by "trademarking" my
efforts like Linus has done with Linux.  I want to protect myself AND
the community from commercial organizations from stealing my/our work. 
I've registered my web site as a .com (and .net and .org) only because I
want to protect the idea from being stolen by others, but at some point
it'll be given back to the group, I just don't know when at the moment
and haven't thought that issue all the way through yet.

> Are you targeting only LDP documents? What about
>         man pages
>         docs in info format
>         HowTos whose authors chose to put them on oswg.org
>         stuff like the netfilter HowTos that cover an important
>           Linux facilty but for some reason aren't in LDP
>           http://netfilter.samba.org/
>         stuff like my FreeS/WAN docs (www.freeswan.org) that
>           isn't yet in a format that lets it go into LDP

All of this is being considered.  But Phase 2 and 3 will go beyond that
(I think big!).  Hint: think "roadmap." My contact at O'Reilly thinks my
idea has much merit, but not for a book, but online, which is what I'm
pursuing now.

> Why do this on your web site? Is that the best place? Do you
> have the server power, bandwidth and skilled admin resources
> to make it a good place?

For a lack of better reason other than I need some work.  Botton line:
I'm trying to get into the IT field (Linux specific would be great) and
because I don't have IT background and every IT job wants 5-7 years
which I don't have (catch 22), I have to demonstrate my skills to those
who will hire me.  So, the web site which I will build myself will show
others my skills and hopefully be offered work.  Once the "job" is in
hand, then I can see donating this effort to LDP, unless someone has a
better idea.

I'm searching for a host for this site at the moment, but I'm expecting
the first Phase to be hosted locally until the second Phase which will
require dynamic HTML stuff, maybe via Zope.

> Will you distribute the tools so others can do similar indexes?

See above comments.  Yes to the community, it'll be a matter of when.

> Do you need help? This list can be an excellent resource. There
> are a lot of people with a variety of skills and interests.
> Post more about your project and you should get lots of feedback.
> Criticism, suggestions, pointers to resources, perhaps even
> volunteers.

I will at some point, but not too much for the next 30-60 days.  I'm
setting the framework of the cataloging of the LDP stuff, but I'll need
help in graphics (I'm not an artsy person), database (I understand
databases and structures, I just don't program), and hosting
configurations, etc.

So, you've got an idea of what I'm doing, but have left out the details
until I'm finished with the already 7 page white paper I've done and
which continues to grow.  I'm donating 2-6 months of my effort to do
this project BECAUSE: there is a need for it in the community (I've been
to all of the well known sites, linuxcare.com, etc., and I haven't seen
anyone do what I'm going to do), I want to be recognized for my work
(with the hope of being paid for my web site demonstration), and I want
to accelerate the adoption of Linux by making it easier to find answers,
and the last point is crucial!!  When someone is not as commited to
finding an answer, they will give up quickly and lose interest.  By my
effort, I plan on making that endeavor easier which hopefully translates
into more people migrating to Linux.

> From: guylhemlistes@ifrance.com
> Man, it sounds a lot like a commercial project designed to take 
> advantage of the LDP in "single way".

I don't consider all "single ways" bad ways unless the control is the
intent. FAQs came about because of the frequent questions asked. 
(Another HINT!!) I plan on "glueing" some things together to reduce
redundancy of peoples efforts, but never to control their efforts.  Does
a library's card catalog restrict "free speech?" No, but it does help
reduce the time it takes to find what you're looking for.  That's my
focus!!  My Masters in QA forces me to think that way.

Lastly, I want to make sure that my efforts meet the Linux community's
expectations in quality and to "surprise" them when it's released (Phase
1).  Therefore, I don't want the whole community to know about it quite
yet, but I'll need to expand who knows about it because I don't have
some skills which others do to make it a high class effort.

Success is never final, failure is never fatal, unless you quit on
others and yourself.
If you get married to your ideas, you'll go through the pangs of divorce
when you're proven wrong.

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